Oblivion:Paradise

Paradise (MQ15)

Main Quest

Tell Martin to open the portal to Paradise, enter it and kill Mankar Camoran.

Optimization:	High
Places:	Mankar Camoran's Paradise
Fame:	0
Reward:	None

Previous:

← Great Gate

Visit this UESP article for more general info.

Next:

Light the Dragonfires →

Kill Mankar Camoran in his throne room.

Current Best Route

Quest stages are indicated in parentheses at the end of each step when they are updated. Keep in mind that these optimized steps are within the context of the 100% speedrun route, meaning that certain items and setups are sometimes assumed to have already been performed prior to the start of the quest.

A SewerMeeting_Save is created during The Path of Dawn that is used during this quest. It is a save with the character sitting in the chair during the sewer meeting.

1. Fast travel to Cloud Ruler Temple. Follow the Quest Marker to talk to Martin.
   • ↳ Yes, open the portal to Paradise. (15)
2. Wait 1 hour to start the portal opening sooner.
3. Enter the portal and head east until you find a long bridge. Ignore any enemies that approach you. Enter the door at the end of the bridge. (20)
4. Make a save. This will be called Paradise_Save later.
5. Load Warp the SewerMeeting_Save through the door again back outside.
6. Once outside, run east to enter a door at the end of the path. Quicksave, then Load Warp the Paradise_Save through this door. Quickload if you accidentally enter the room before Load Warping.
7. Once inside the building, kill Mankar Camoran. You will be automatically teleported out. (90)
8. Head back to the main hall to talk to Martin.
   • Advance predetermined dialogue. (✔ 100)

Bugs

• A significant bug can occur if you Load Warp back to Cloud Ruler Temple after killing Mankar Camoran before it automatically teleports you out. At a seemingly random point, the player will be teleported back to the portal location in Cloud Ruler Temple, potentially massively disrupting the route. This glitch is proven to be exploitable for skipping cutscenes, but is currently too unpredictable to work with in the route. See the Script Analysis section below for more details.
• The Paradise Seizure graphical glitch can be triggered, but needs to be intentionally set up and will not affect the 100% route.

Route Logic Considerations

There are no significant route logic considerations for this quest.

Script Analysis

There are numerous issues relating to the behavior of the portal in Cloud Ruler Temple:

• Killing Mankar Camoran starts a temple collapsing animation, eventually teleporting the player back to Cloud Ruler Temple at the location of the portal. Load Warping out of Paradise during the collapsing animation results in the game randomly teleporting the player back to the portal a seemingly variable amount of time later.
  • Waiting seems to trigger it sooner.
  • The state of the portal (whether or not the portal or base have disappeared) does not prevent this effect from occurring in most cases.
  • If you are in the West Wing of Cloud Ruler Temple and despawned the base of the portal during the glitch setup, a loading screen appears but you are not teleported to the Portal, despite this glitch working with an identical setup in other cells.
  • The base will reappear frozen in a half-closed animation if it previously disappeared during the setup of this glitch.
• Being outside of the main hall of Cloud Ruler Temple (via Load Warping) when the quest updates to stage 90 will result in the base of the portal not disappearing. This sometimes seems to result in the portal entrance itself staying open, allowing the player to re-enter Paradise. Being in the main hall when the quest updates to stage 90 will result in the portal base disappearing as intended.
• Load Warping out of Paradise after killing Mankar Camoran but before the screen starts shaking will cause abnormal quest stage behavior. The quest stages seem to undo their progress, resulting in the quest going from stage 89 to stage 20. Timing this Load Warp differently has been claimed to change the stage to other older values as well, but this is largely untested.

When Mankar Camoran is killed, the OnDeath code block runs in his MankarCamoranScript, which then sets the Paradise quest to stage 89 and a local variable called FreezePlayer to 1. Stage 89 of this quest then has a script tied to it that sets MankarCamoranRef.timer to 15 (this is the local variable within MankarCamoranScript). This is essentially a 15 second timer than prevents the script from checking other logic until the timer is less than or equal to 0.

If the timer has reached 0 or less, the Begin Gamemode code block within MankarCamoranScript will do several useful things if the Paradise quest has completed stage 89 (which will always be true at this point theoretically) and if freezeplayer == 1 (which will only be true this one time since it sets it to 0 right after passing the check):

• enableplayercontrols
• set freezePlayer to 0
• player.moveto MQ15PortalRef to place the player at the portal in Cloud Ruler Temple.

In summary, you must wait for the timer variable to reach 0 first, then you will have a single instance where you are teleported to the portal's location. This seems straightforward, but the effects of this are not consistent in-game. The 15 second time seems to vary wildly, possibly implying that the script of dead NPCs are persistent globally due to some sort of memory related issues (or because Mankar Camoran is special due to being part of the Main Quest.) Solving the mechanics of when this script gets called may shed light on greater exploits, as it seems the variable is being set to unintended values or being reset often. It is similar to the timer bugs encountered in the mechanics of Vampirism and Imperial Dragon Armor.

Other small points of interest from script analysis:

• There appears to be enableplayercontrols not only in the Paradise collapsing sequence, but also when interacting with the cages in Paradise. This may be useful for cutscene skipping in the future.
• Due to how the freezePlayer logic works, there is no way reach this instance of enableplayercontrols more than once since the variable is set to 1 during an OnDeath code block, which can only run once. Skull of Corruption may possibly work but seems impractical from a routing standpoint.

Quest Stages

Paradise (MQ15)

Stage	Finish	setstage Scripts	Journal Entry
0
10			I should prepare myself to travel to Camoran's Paradise and take back the Amulet of Kings from Mankar Camoran. When I am ready, I should meet Martin in the Great Hall at Cloud Ruler Temple.
15			Martin performed the ritual and opened the portal to Camoran's Paradise. He warned me that the portal would close behind me. Martin believes that since Mankar Camoran bound himself to the Mysterium Xarxes in the creation of Paradise, I can only return to Tamriel by killing him. I must enter the portal, kill Mankar Camoran, recover the Amulet of Kings.
20			I have arrived in Camoran's Paradise. The portal closed behind me. I must find Mankar Camoran, kill him and recover the Amulet of Kings.
30			I met a dremora named Kathutet who offered to help me get into the Forbidden Grottos if I helped him by freeing a Xivilai that the Mythic Dawn immortals have trapped in a cave. He claimed that the only way to leave the Savage Garden was by wearing the Bands of the Chosen, which he would give me if I help him.
32			I met a dremora named Kathutet who told me that he holds the key to the Forbidden Grotto, which he claims is the only way out of the Savage Garden. I should find out what this key is and get it from him. (If stage 30 has not been completed)
33			The Dremora Kathutet claims that something called the Bands of the Chosen are the key to the Forbidden Grotto, the only way out of the Savage Garden. I should get these Bands from him.
35			I found a Xivilai trapped in a cave, and set it free. (If stage 30 has not been completed) or I freed the Xivilai Anaxes from the cave where he was trapped. I should return to Kathutet and see if he will give me the Bands of the Chosen, as he promised. (If stage 30 has been completed)
36			I killed the Xivilai that I freed from the cave. (If the player had not agreed to free Anaxes) or The Xivilai Anaxes is dead, although Kathutet told me not to kill it. I should find out if he will still give me the Bands of the Chosen, as he promised. (If the player had agreed to help Kathutet)
40			The dremora Kathutet gave me the Bands of the Chosen, which he says will let me escape the Savage Garden into the Forbidden Grotto. I should find the door to the Forbidden Grotto and see if he was telling the truth. (If stage 30 has been completed by stage 40 has not)
42			Kathutet was angry at me for killing the Xivilai. I will have to take the Bands of the Chosen from him by force.
45			I took the Bands of the Chosen from a Dremora named Kathutet. Perhaps they will provide the means to help me escape from the Savage Garden and reach Mankar Camoran. (If none of stages 30, 32, 33 or 40 have been completed) or I have the Bands of the Chosen. I should find the door to the Forbidden Grotto and see if he was telling the truth. (If stage 40 has not been completed but one of 30, 32 or 33 has)
50			I have entered the Forbidden Grotto. Now to find my way through to the Terrace of the Dawn where I hope to find Mankar Camoran and the Amulet of Kings.
51			(set when Orthe et al warn player to get out of their area)
54			I met a High Elf named Eldamil. He served Mankar Camoran and the Mythic Dawn on Tamriel, but since coming to Gaiar Alata and seeing the true nature of Mankar Camoran's 'paradise', he claims to have regretted his deeds. He warned me that it was impossible to leave these caves while wearing the Bands of the Chosen, and offered to help me by removing them.
56			I accepted Eldamil's offer to help me escape the Forbidden Grottos. Eldamil wants me to pretend to be a prisoner until his Dremora overseer finishes his inspection. I wonder if I can trust him.
57			(Orthe starts conversation with Eldamil)
58			(finish conversation with Orthe; Orthe waits while Eldamil urges you into the cage)
60			(player enters cage)
62			(Eldamil throws lever to lower cage)
64			(open the gate in Orthe's room)
65			(Cage reaches bottom)
66			(cage reaches top)
67			Eldamil told me he would meet me further into the caves where he would be able to remove the Bands of the Chosen from my wrists. I should continue searching for a way through these caves to Mankar Camoran's palace.
68			(player enters Grotto 3)
70			Eldamil removed the Bands of the Chosen. I should now be able to leave the Forbidden Grotto and continue on my way towards Mankar Camoran's palace at the top of the mountain.
72			(set if the player agrees to Eldamil's help)
75			(trigger for Ruma and Raven to follow player)
78			(Mankar Camoran starts speech to player)
79			(Mankar's speech done (timer sets stage 80))
80			I found Mankar Camoran in his palace of Carac Agaialor. Now I must kill him and take the Amulet of Kings back to Tamriel.
82			(player attacks Mankar -- make him run)
85			(Mankar Camoran attacks player)
89			(Mankar Camoran is dead -- trigger "End of Paradise")
90			I killed Mankar Camoran. Upon his death, the Paradise he had created dissolved around me, and I found myself back in Cloud Ruler Temple with the Amulet of Kings in my hand. I must give the Amulet to Martin.
91
92			(trigger Martin to forcegreet)
95			Martin took the Amulet of Kings from me, and placed it around his neck -- he is indeed of the Septim blood. But he reminded me that Mankar Camoran's death will not halt the Oblivion crisis. Mehrunes Dagon's invasion will continue until Martin lights the Dragonfires in the Temple of the One.
100	✔